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412 - The Te of Pacey

We didn't think Pacey's birthdays could get any worse after that disastrous 16th birthday, but then this episode happened. At least Dawson showed up for the party and didn't forget about his birthday this time!

Also, one of The Five Things on Traci's #NoSpoilersForCharles spoilers list has been...spoiled. Sigh.

Episode links:

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  1. Thanks for posting the link! I like Busy and can’t wait to read her book (and see her Tv show, I hope Michelle is a guest, I love their friendship so much).

    I’m sorry to hear Busy didn’t seem to really enjoy her time on Dawson’s. I get it, it must be hard coming into a show that’s been on the air for four years and the cast has known each other for that long. It also makes me sad, like this thing I love so much, and then knowing the people involved didn’t always like it (which, again, I get). I’d love to also hear what the other cast members thought of their time on the show. And the way she was treated by the production people, not good or cool at all.

    1. We hope Michelle is a guest on her talk show too! It looks like it's going to be fun. Even though "Dawson's Creek" may not have been an all-around wonderful time for her, at least that wonderful friendship came out of it!

  2. I'm watching for the first time but i'm about a season ahead of you guys. Also the same spoiler that happened to Charles happen to me but someone actually told me when and how it happens because they though i had already seen the episode.

  3. Ok, so I posted on Twitter earlier that I had some feelings about this episode that I didn't want to try to shed down to a few number of characters so here it goes. Also, there might be some SLIGHT spoilers (I guess) so I would read at your own risk (I'l mark the portion ahead of time just in case too, though I'm not sure how "spoilerish" you'll take it).

    First off, I have some thoughts on the Mr. Witter front. I agree with Charles that it's frustrating that we went from that last scene from season two to this, basically retconning that conversation. More so is Doug's attitude through the episode as I felt he and Pacey's relationship had come far enough along that he would have said something. The main thing I want to bring up is the idea of "Death of the author". I do think the writers were trying to have their cake and eat it to with their depiction of Mr. Witter. They wanted Pacey to feel horrible and such but then turn around and try to say that Mr. Witter actually isn't that bad, he's just unsure how to treat Pacey. In the end, it doesn't WHAT extra-textual or explanation the writers give, the fact is is that in the text of the episode, Mr. Witter is emotionally abusive and manipulative. He tries to frame his abuse in a way that makes it seem ok, but it's just not. And his mother is just as guilty. The trauma that Pacey has grown up is just ridiculous and it's amazing that his character has turned out as well as he has considering. There's honestly nothing that has been given to us textually that supports Mr. Witter being a good person or man, so the whole thing is disgusting.

    This leads me into my issue with Joey. She has known Pacey for, I'm assuming, as long as she's known Pacey. She should know his history with his family, either first hand or via stories from Dawson. As Traci mentioned in the episode, Joey has a terrible habit of minimizing someone's experience by comparing it to her own. I feel like she never tries to see the events from the other person's eye because she's too busy comparing it to her own life and just assuming that her's is worse so why are they complaining. In all honesty, I find Pacey and Jen's parenting situations Soooo much worse than Joey's. I'm not minimizing the pain of losing her mother and her father's incarceration, but the emotional trauma caused to Pacey and Jen by their parents I think have seemingly damaged them far more than Joey's life experiences have. (Granted, her traumas were given more life in the first two seasons than later when her problems gravitated more to whom she was dating/sleeping with). Slight spoilers, I guess, but her general attitude and inability to really understand and engage is why I think Pacey has such a damn identity crisis and self-image problem with her. Andi never made him feel so damn bad about himself.

    My issues with Joey don't stop there as they're only made worse by her interactions with Dawson. This episode, and ALL of the following seasons, bring into play my reasons as to why Joey becomes my least favorite character in the show. Joey has an unnatural, unhealthy, and entirely selfish claim to Dawson. As much as Dawson gets bagged on (and he should) for how he treated Joey and Pacey in season three, Joey is just as bad, and for much longer, the same way with Dawson. Every single time Dawson dates someone else, Joey has an issue with it. Every. Time. In fact, everyone always seems to have an opinion on Dawson's love life in one way or another for as long as the show runs. In this instance, I honestly don't understand why Pacey and (especially) Joey are so pissy about him and Gretchen. I would think after the events of last year, they'd be happy and relieved he's been able to move on and be happy, but Joey just doesn't let him be. And there's no reason but bad writing to motivate it.


  4. Lastly, we come around to Tobey. As a gay man, I have to say undeniably that I can not stand him. I dislike him with every fiber of my being. I appreciate seeing different types of gay men, but his elitist attitude just rubs me the wrong way. The way he comes at Jack isn't just an insecure bantery way of flirting but flat out hostile attempt to read Jack for just being himself. I have ALWAYS agreed with Jack in his philosophy of himself. The fact that Jack doesn't let being gay be his main identifier is refreshing. I never took his dislike for Toby's group as hatred for who he is, but just that it wasn't his thing. Jack, for the past few seasons, has had his identity pretty much defined as "the gay guy". So when he's trying desperately to find and give himself more than just that one identifier, I applaud him for that. Being gay may be what you are but it's not the entirety of your being. I don't like people like Toby trying to say Jack is "self hating" or "not gay enough" just because he refuses to let that be his entire identity. Toby never grows on me and he's just the worst.

    I hope this all made sense, but i just got off of work and I'm tired so it may not. Either way, I love the podcast and look forward to the next episode.

    1. Johnathan! Your comment(s) are SO insightful and YES we agree: the writers messed up the whole Sheriff Witter storyline here and has just undone ANY sort of progress or redemption storyline they were trying to start in season 2.

      Will talk a little bit about your comments on next week's episode :)


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