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607 - Ego Tripping at the Gates of Hell



One way or another... things aren't looking too good for Audrey :(

From Traci: "Sometimes I think about how certain storylines in Dawson's Creek would be treated in 2019. I think for things like Audrey's slow breakdown, plus Jack's realization in last season's spring break episode about how off-track he's been, they'd be treated with a little more seriousness. We'll see it develop more with Audrey this season, as many of you know, but I'm still a little frustrated with how much they ignored Jack's story at the end of last season. I guess the true can be said for Jen's storylines in the past too... I think if Charles and I were to reboot the Creek, we'd probably just focus on all of the 'secondary' characters haha."

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Comments

  1. So, I have a few thoughts on this episode. I don't blame Jack for not wanting to tell jen that CJ isn't interested in her. Last time he tried to tell jen something about her relationship (Henry) jen got really upset with him. Maybe he didn't want to go through that again. Also, I can't stand CJ and the way he treats Jen. In my opinion he just always comes off like he thinks he's better than her.

    When it comes to audrey and pacey, I think audrey had it in her head that pacey is the perfect boyfriend since that's the impression she got from him and Joey's relationship. I think she spent the last year hearing about how perfect pacey is and when he didn't live up to that image it was hard for her. I put the blame on both of them for their break up. Audrey could have been more supportive of pacey's new career and he should have been more aware of her depression and what was going on with he .

    And, I'm pretty sure Eddie lives closer to the bar/school. I'm pretty sure where he's from and where his parents live is farther away, but his apartment is closer.

    And, just wanted to say that I love your show!

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    1. I don't blame Jack for not wanting to tell Jen that CJ isn't interested in her, because it's not his responsibility. David is obviously being cagey about why CJ doesn't date. If Jen makes her intentions clearly known, then CJ can choose to tell her whatever he decides he wants to share. High school and college are those formative years where we all have to learn rejection, so: Woman up, Jen. Jack getting in the middle of all this....it gets messy in a way that is not necessary.

      I agree---Eddie lives closer to the bar, and his parents live further away.

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    2. Jack has made some bad decisions in the past re: interfering with Jen's love life, e.g. setting her up with Henry in the first place and pressuring her to go out with him. But I do think he should have said something to her, since he KNEW that CJ wasn't interested and let her keep pursuing him. I'd expect my friends to tell me if they had that kind of information from a boy I liked.

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    3. @Dawson's Speak - LOL I wish I could!

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  2. I am sad about what's happening to Audrey, however it is not Joey's fault she doesn't know about Pacey - she's not a mind reader?! Joey still came to support her by watching her sing etc. and Audrey has been spending time with Pacey a lot so why is it all Joey's fault, I dunno her behaviour seems quite spoilt rich girl, especially with the rude, super snobby comment to Eddie.

    I don't know why the writers didn't use Audrey's drunken downward spiral as a way to make her bond with Jen - surely Jen can relate! Season 2 (and before she came to Capeside) Jen was exhibiting very similar behaviour. That would be a better story line that the nothing-y, boy crazy one she is currently enduring.

    Although I am a hardcore PJ shipper, I do quite enjoy Eddie and Joey! He challenges her and doesn't act like she is a perfect princess. And she becomes less annoying with him, more old school, sassy and quick-witted Joey.

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    1. I agree with you, I would have much rather seen audrey and jen bond over this. That would have made a much better story line. Jen always got the short end of the stick when it came to really good stories IMO.

      And I think you're right about Joey and Audrey. Audrey could have told joey about the break up. They're both busy, it's not Joey's fault

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    2. Joey was a pretty shitty friend this episode. Audrey was unduly harsh with Joey about not knowing about the break up, but she was right that it was pathetic that Joey didn’t respond to Audrey’s confession that she’s been severely depressed. Instead Joey, in her self centered fashion, only responds to Audrey’s comment that Eddie is her boyfriend. Joey also should have called Audrey out when she insulted Eddie. It really doesn’t matter that Audrey was drunk. Joey owed apologies all around this episode and I’m disappointed that she didn’t offer Eddie one when he stopped by her dorm to make amends.

      I think it’s natural to want to see more of the secondary characters especially in long running serial dramas. You see so much of the main characters that their flaws can become more pronounced and annoying especially in this age of hate-watching. Problems with the writing can also be more apparent with main characters. Secondary characters leave more to the imagination, so they leave us wanting more.

      I haven’t really watched any modern soapy teen dramas. I was actually wondering if they’ve gotten less preachy about drinking/drugs. It really does seem like on any show from the late 90’s/early 00’s, teen couldn’t drink/do drugs without getting date raped or becoming raging addicts.

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    3. "It really does seem like on any show from the late 90’s/early 00’s, teen couldn’t drink/do drugs without getting date raped or becoming raging addicts."
      In The Vampire Diaries, Stefan and Elena jumped into bed together pretty quickly in season 1, without going through all of the angst that existed in Dawson's Creek. And Veronica Mars was, by and large, willing to let its characters drink - yes, Veronica got drugged and date raped but she also got drunk without terrible consequences a few times, at least as far as I recall...

      Agree that Joey was a shitty friend, I haven't actually rewatched the episode in years so I may be missing a few moments but Joey's deflection that "Eddie is not my boyfriend" is pretty bad. However, that's also something that I'd likely have done at that age, only because I wouldn't know what to say in response to someone saying they're severely depressed, and would have, in a panic, latched onto the one thing I could think of to say. Completely agree it came across wrong though, and Joey should have apologised. But so should Audrey. And so should Eddie for being such a raging prima donna.

      There were SO MANY more storylines that the show could have done, it's just depressing on rewatching how many opportunities they missed. Jen helping Audrey through her tough times. Jack struggling with his own mental health, especially given his mother and sister's history. Sigh. #JusticeforJen #JusticeforJack

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    4. That’s an interesting take on Joey’s response to Audrey. Joey’s not always the most open about her emotions, so I can see her getting flustered and not knowing what to say in that situation.

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    5. You're right. Joey was wrong to not respond to Audrey saying she was depressed, and I agree she should also have apologised to Eddie for not defending him.

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    6. There were definitely a lot of missed opportunities on stories they could've written for Jen! She just became a little "boy crazy" as soon as they got to college, and it's frustrating.

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  3. Re: Audrey being drunk - I'm completely on Eddie's side here for refusing to serve her, and think it's out of character for Joey to not care that Audrey is really drunk. I put that down to inconsistent writing rather than Joey having a sudden personality change.

    (Also, it's so much more noticeable how TERRIBLE Emma's British accent is when just listening to the audio!)

    Eddie is just such a downer. Telling Joey that he thinks she "represent[s] everything I hate" - oh get over yourself, Eddie. If you hate college students that much, stop hanging around with them. There must be other bars in Boston that would hire you. If he really perceives Joey in that way, then he shouldn't be dating her. If he doesn't know that she's NOT that, then they need to actually sit down and have a conversation so he can stop being so passive aggressive and judgemental. Surely Joey already has those bases covered ;)

    I do think that Eddie has some redeeming qualities, but he makes Joey do so much emotional labour on his behalf. She should kick him to the kerb until he gets his shit together and stops taking his issues out on her.

    Joey was a bad friend to Audrey in this episode, but I'm not all that surprised that she has distanced herself from Audrey and Pacey - that's got to be awkward for everyone involved, even if they pretend that it isn't. I just WISH there'd been more interaction between the original characters in this season. Joey and Jen never talk. Pacey and Joey rarely talk, except about Audrey. Dawson is cut off from pretty much everyone else (I understand him and Joey not really talking given what happened at the start of the season, but isn't he still friends with Jen and Jack and (to a certain extent) Pacey?). Pacey and Jen haven't talked since the end of season 3 so far as I can recall. Nobody except Jen seems to care about Jack. And whenever the characters DO all link up, there's always relationship drama going down. Poor Jen gets so short-changed this season, and as much as I like Jensen Ackles, CJ is a terrible human being and is only going to get worse as the season continues.

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    1. This is such a good observation! I think you've hit the nail on the head as to why I dislike huge chunks of season 5 and 6. The writers keep pairing the core cast with new people and there is such a lack of interaction between the originals. The sheer number of new characters is exhaaaaausting. I don't care about Natasha, or Emma, or the professors, or CJ, or Charlie. I don't even care about Audrey THAT much. This is a revelation! Thanks for saying it!

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    2. Thanks for reading it! :) I was spending (wasting?) a pile of time recently trying to rewrite the storylines for seasons 4, 5 & 6 (I included season 4 because #JusticeforAndie - I had her stay for the whole season) and I put together spreadsheets with a column for each character and their storylines, then spent considerable time figuring out who was interacting with who, and who hadn't interacted for a while, and what each character's relationship was with each other character. It was really interesting, and I got to write some great Joey/Jen stuff in season 4, because those two in particular got short-changed on the friendship front, IMO. (The show became so obsessed over Joey being perfect that they forgot to ever give her any real female friends, which is why her relationship dramas completely overtake her entire storylines because they're literally the only relationships she has. Even Bessie basically disappears in the later seasons - remember how important she was at the start?)

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    3. @Kate: that sounds awesome!!!! I'd love to see this spreadsheet if possible?

      also I agree - I wish Jen/Joey had been closer/better friends. there's like zero female friendships in this show and it's annoying. and I miss bessie.

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  4. Yeah, I think the writers put the “you might represent everything I’m missing” line thinking it was romantic but really he just insulted her.

    The later seasons were definitely heavy on the romantic drama at the expense of the platonic relationships. I’m always kinda sad they didn’t develop the Jack/Joey friendship more. I enjoyed there interactions in season 2 . She was supportive of him after he came out then they didn’t really do much with their friendship.

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    1. The Jack/Joey friendship was so lovely to see in the aftermath of their breakup. I still remember the stress of anti-prom and how they both were just so supportive of each other... Joey wasn't as "there" for Jack last season during his frat stuff, but that could also be because of how she saw his frat bros treating girls (like Audrey) early on in season 5.

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    2. Jack/Joey got completely thrown aside in favour of Jack/Jen (which I loved, but Jack could have had more than one friend). I loved their friendship in season 2 as well. Joey became vastly more self-absorbed as the seasons went on, which was a shame.

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