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613 - Rock Bottom




We have nothing more to say about this...rock bottom...of an episode. But! May we present some amazing photos instead?:

Charles' Dawson's Creek "shrine"

Thank you, Amanda and Kevin, for sharing this photo from your Creek series finale party!

Amanda, Josh, and Kevin at Amanda and Josh's Creek finale party!

Episode links:

Got something to say? Leave it in the comments below, or you can email us at dawsonsspeakpod@gmail.com, call us at 732-98-CREEK, or find us at @dawsonsspeakpod on Twitter and Facebook.

Comments

  1. First up, the "I remember everything" in Charles' shrine is the best thing I've seen all day. ICONIC.

    I agree that this episode sucks (it's aptly titled) but you're on the home stretch now! I really like the next one, as well as 6x15, obviously. I cannot WAIT for Charles to get there.

    A quick hashtag - #JusticeforAudrey. Who did the writers do dirtier in this show, Audrey or Andie? Discuss.

    Just wanted to comment on the Grams/Uncle Bill storyline. The writing is so weak here - like Charles says, it makes NO sense for Grams to like Uncle Bill. I can't help wondering if the writers made Uncle Bill so awful to make CJ seem better by comparison, but if so, what a misfire. Why not do it the other way around and have Uncle Bill be a good guy and show that he has a close relationship with CJ, boosting CJ's reputation instead? Maybe CJ came from a broken home and Uncle Bill took him in as a teenager and helped to raise him (this also gives CJ some common ground between him and Jen). Then Grams and Uncle Bill could bond over raising wayward children and tell stories about what they were like as kids, so we can get to know CJ better and get some context for his actions. I know that Charles said "No-one should be dating CJ" and I do actually agree, but they could at least have given us some kind of reason for Jen to like him and vice versa. (Other than his broad shoulders and beautiful face.) I wish they'd done a slow burn on this relationship, showing them gradually getting to know and respect each other and becoming friends before they start dating. Sadly, that is not to be.

    Oh also, you played the same clip twice in your podcast, the second time it should have some reference to Joey going to Paris but it's just the same clip from earlier where Eddie declares his love for Joey. *SNORE*

    And finally, where do *I* get my full size Joshua Jackson cardboard cutout??

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    1. I would also like to know where I can get a life-size Joshua Jackson cutout! those pictures are awesome and I LOVE charles' shrine. :):) my planner for 2020 is going to have quite a few dc stickers, or stickers related to this podcast, more than any other fandom I'm into (parks and my fave b99) and I am not at all ashamed.

      I don't really like s6 and have only seen it maybe once (even post-6x15), but I've been listening to every episode of this podcast! I can't comment on a lot of it yet for this specific episode as I haven't listened, but I remember audrey's decline was sad to watch. she deserved better, too.

      also.... I think the writers did andie dirtier. I feel like audrey really only interacted/was friends with joey and pacey, but andie interacted with everyone else, too. and I feel like she had a bigger impact on the show and its characters, too, other than obviously pacey. and I feel like pacey and andie were meant to be together for the long haul, while I feel like pacey and andrey were kind of meant to be less serious.

      can't comment on the whole cj storyline as I don't really remember that, but I remember liking him when he was first introduced (maybe partially due to the fact that he was played by jensen ackles) and being disappointed by who he turned out to be.

      love the pod and these discussions! :D

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    2. I felt the same way about CJ. I remember being disappointed in him, because I knew Jensen Ackles could be much better. I didn't realise just how awful he was until later when I attempted to rewatch - I gave that up after 8 painful episodes and jumped straight to 6x14 :)

      I think season 6 is just disjointed and everyone is off on their own storylines, so we don't get many character interactions which is what the charm of the show is built on. The only thing I liked about that was the fact that Dawson being in LA made it very easy to FFWD through all of his scenes. (Sorry not sorry.)

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    3. that was a great decision! :) I love jensen and he could do much better. he's such a nice guy irl, this is like his polar opposite!

      "I think season 6 is just disjointed and everyone is off on their own storylines, so we don't get many character interactions which is what the charm of the show is built on." THIS is part of why I don't like the last couple seasons. this and there's something so nostalgic and charming about capeside itself and when they were in high school. the college years don't have that, and that's only partially due to the fact that they're not all in the same town. but I'm also glad it didn't end after s4, unlike one tree hill, which I pretend does end when they all graduated high school....

      btw I want to make sure my earlier comment about pacey and andie being together for the long haul is cleared up.... I do love pacey and andie, but I ship pjo so much harder. I don't wanna say too much for fear of spoilers (one day we will be #nospoilersforcharles bc he and traci will be done with the show but that day is not today), and I'm sure nobody cares or took my comment like I did, but I wanted to clear this up haha.

      also, kate, I always love reading your comments! I'm not as active on here because I haven't seen the last couple seasons nearly as much as the first few, but your comments are all really insightful. :)

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    4. I might not like the last couple seasons as much as the first few, but the series finale is pretty perfect and one of the best finales I've ever seen. one of my faves for sure. :)

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    5. I definitely think Andie was done more dirty than Audrey. Andie was a much more loveable, fleshed out character who felt real, believable remorse for her actions. Audrey is funny sure, but she's also spoilt, snobby (OBSESSED with Eddie being working class, mentions it again twice in this episode), rude and does (in my opinion) far worse things which she barely apologies for because she's so entitled. Even in this episode, fair enough Joey might have not 100% selflessly be driving her to rehab but I really don't feel like stealing Eddie's car from the petrol station at top speed is a reasonable response to this. And then she barely even apologises, as per usual.

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    6. @sarah - Thank you for saying you like my comments, I sometimes worry that I am boring everyone by posting so much but I have too many thoughts! And I figure people can scroll past if I'm boring them. I haven't seen the later seasons as much either (apart from a couple of season 6 episodes that get a lot of rewatching. The series finale being one of them. That goes a LONG way towards redeeming the show and leaving a good taste in the mouth after a couple of fairly tedious seasons.)

      Your comment about Pacey and Andie did raise my eyebrows, so thanks for the clarification. I assume what you meant is that at the time of watching it, it FELT like a super important, long-term relationship. Rather than Paudrey, which always just felt like a way to keep both of them involved in Joey's storyline.

      "THIS is part of why I don't like the last couple seasons. this and there's something so nostalgic and charming about capeside itself and when they were in high school."
      And THIS is why I hope that, if they ever do any DC reboot, that it's set in Capeside. They should call it 'Capeside' and have it be about all the people in the town, and Dawson et al. can just pop in occasionally for the nostalgia factor. I have a whole season of that show written in my head ;)

      @iwishicouldwink - I agree about Audrey. They completely annihilated her character in season 6. She was fun and likeable in season 5. In S6, she just sucked. I still want Justice for Andie.

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    7. “ Your comment about Pacey and Andie did raise my eyebrows, so thanks for the clarification. I assume what you meant is that at the time of watching it, it FELT like a super important, long-term relationship. Rather than Paudrey, which always just felt like a way to keep both of them involved in Joey's storyline.

      "THIS is part of why I don't like the last couple seasons. this and there's something so nostalgic and charming about capeside itself and when they were in high school."
      And THIS is why I hope that, if they ever do any DC reboot, that it's set in Capeside. They should call it 'Capeside' and have it be about all the people in the town, and Dawson et al. can just pop in occasionally for the nostalgia factor. I have a whole season of that show written in my head ;)“

      That is exactly what I meant re: Pandie vs Paundry.

      Oooooo I’d love to see this happen! I hope they don’t do a reboot but if they did, I love your idea!

      And nooooo your comments are fine! I love reading long comments, especially when there are so few people who watch this show anymore, much less post on a message board of a podcast about said show. Please never stop commenting. :)

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  2. Traci and Charles I could not agree more re: your response to Joey and Eddie's conversation about him 'leaving her behind'.

    I think the way these relationships go from 0 - 100 is what I hate the most. Eddie and Joey go from hating each other to dating to being 'in love' in the course of about 5 episodes. There's no build up, no reason for anything, no finding out who the characters are and why they like each other. Therefore, no-one really cares when it all falls apart and all these deep conversations and movie kisses are empty and fake because the drama doesn't seem authentic.

    Compare this to the slow, intriguing build ups of Pacey and Andie, Pacey and Joey, Dawson and Gretchen, Dawson and Joey (Jen/Jack and no-one because they were both done dirty) - so much more believable and worth investing in.

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    1. The slow burn of Pacey and Joey's relationship in season 3 is my favourite thing about the show. It just takes so much time to build them up, from people who barely tolerated each other in the past two seasons to the point where Joey comes to rely on Pacey without even realising it. It's a shame they kept shoehorning Dawson in between them at the end of the season and all through season 4, but the slow, gradual build up of their friendship is golden. They come to respect each other, then like each other, then they fall in love with each other, and we feel the same way as viewers.

      Poor Jen and Jack. They deserved better.

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    2. Agreed 1000% about PJo. They’re one of my favorite things about this show.


      Their relationship is lovely but I almost love their friendship more. Prob because Dawson was a lot more prominent in said relationship than friendship, and I hated that, but I just... it was all done so beautifully and with such awesome buildup to a relationship.

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    3. Agree with everything said. iwishicouldwink just hit the nail on the head on why I couldn't get into any other romantic relationship on the show other than Joey and Pacey. There was no build up for any couple but them. Dawson and Jen- He liked her immediately and they started dating almost right off the bat. Dawson and Joey- No chemistry in my book on top of Dawson chasing after Jen for episodes on end until Joey sings terribly with her hair up and makeup on and then voila! He realizes she's his soulmate. Please. Pacey and Andie- They were cute and they had a tad amount of build up but I just wasn't interested in them. None of Jen's relationships interested me and Joey's choices after Pacey were lame to me. The Eddie thing was absurd and the writers out did themselves with the absurdity once Eddie returns. The writers were really fooling themselves that they created some compelling relationship between those two. Boring is what they were to me because how quickly we were all supposed to swallow them as a couple in such a short time. Why were they in love? What happened on screen to show us the why, how, when all of that supposedly happened? I liked Jack with Ethan but we never got to see any of Jack's relationships build up except maybe Tobey but I didn't like that character.

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  3. Eddie is 100% Pacey-lite. Working class roots with untapped potential? Check. Elite Josephine Potter sparring partner? Check. Inferiority complex with destructive self-loathing? Check. At least Pacey has a sense of humor though, and years of backstory to make up for the 'tude. We barely get to know Eddie, so it's hard to find him interesting or likable when he's complaining all the time. Bye, Eddie. Too bad I'll hate you even more when you come back...

    BRING ON CLEAN AND SOBER!!!

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    1. YES - same basic character outline with none of the humour or backstory and not nearly as much charm. Which is not really a slight on Oliver Hudson, who can be quite charming when he wants to, but Joshua Jackson is comprised of 80% charm and also has better chemistry with Katie Holmes than Oliver (or, really, anyone ever IMO).

      "Bye, Eddie. Too bad I'll hate you even more when you come back..."
      Oh, god. Yes. At least he does leave again. I just wish he'd never returned in the first place...

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